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4 Billion In Orders
#11
(11-15-2017, 12:52 AM)Janet6196 Wrote: Rick, I don’t find any Zongshen brand motorcycles.

Here's one in action. It seems to work although it's noisy and requires a lot of operator intervention to keep the driver alive and to operate the machinery.

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGSTuGN-hVc

I'm really glad Solo is electric...
My blog is an eclectic list of rants and commentary about things for which I care. See MrPogson.com It's been around a decade...
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#12
Advantage - Zonshen are cheap. Quality as you state, not so much.
Solo Alpha Series #64 Silver
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#13
(11-15-2017, 01:08 AM)Janet6196 Wrote: the Solo and Leaf share a faulty battery cooling system (air only) which degrade in heat and cold.

Solo has revised theirs. Air-only should work well because of the shape of the battery compartments, long and narrow. There is lots of surface area for the amount of heat involved and a tiny bit of active air-cooling will do the job I'm sure.

The battery can work well from -20C to +40C ambient air temperatures which will take care of almost all of my driving. I'm more concerned with having to add a bit of heat to help charging and to deliver power in the cold. EMV says their new system will do the job. I was thinking short trips from my insulated garage and body-heat would be enough...

Most of the "wear" in lithium batteries comes from running them nearly empty in which case slight differences between cells can cause some cells to be reverse-polarized and fried. That's why folks advise not running below about 10% charge. Nissan has needed to change only a tiny percentage of the batteries they have out in the world. My hybrid SUV is ten years old and the battery still has some life left. Most ice engines cost way more than a battery for Solo. It's not a concern and if EMV can deliver better performance in winter or a bit better range in summer, I'm happy.
My blog is an eclectic list of rants and commentary about things for which I care. See MrPogson.com It's been around a decade...
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#14
(11-15-2017, 01:22 AM)Janet6196 Wrote: Advantage - Zonshen are cheap. Quality as you state, not so much.
Janet, Zongshen certainly provides for a more affordable SOLO MSRP.  However, my research on the Zongshen Group indicates they build cycles of varying degrees of quality...............low quality to very high quality depending on the brand specifications.  If you think Kroll is out to build a cheap, inferior quality product I would disagree based on the EMV Team members, the company vision, and dedication to get a variety of EVs to market.  If Zongshen can't supply a vehicle that meets EMV's high quality standards, Kroll wouldn't have partnered with that manufacturing group. IMO.  I don't look at Harley, Piaggio, Vespa, and the future Electra Meccanica as cheap poor quality Brand names.  

Keep in mind that the SOLO parts that are currently being assembled in Vancouver are being sourced from "around the world".

However, if your opinion that Kroll is building cheap low quality EVs plays out, I doubt either of us will buy one.
White Hot Solo #166
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#15
(11-15-2017, 01:46 AM)Rickb Wrote: Keep in mind that the SOLO parts that are currently being assembled in Vancouver are being sourced from "around the world".

One of the key elements of Solo that gives me confidence is that Solo has a simple design that can be built anywhere. That's what the world needs for an EV that fills the commuter niche in or near cities all over the world. Perhaps eventually every large city will have a Solo factory. For now, until the niche is crowded, EMV has an opportunity to take a huge market share and a lead in this niche and China can help. China has the capacity to ship a lot of Solos much sooner than Canada. Being first to market is vital. Solo's design makes that possible.

The comparable technologies are not the ICEd passenger car but the bicycle and the motorcycle. Those are built all around the world just as Solo will be. Solo has a huge advantage over those technologies because of comfort, safety and total enclosure. ICEd passenger cars are a competing technology which has been demonstrated to be problematic in large cities all over the world. The market for EVs will be huge and Solo will have a major share of that because families typically have one or two bread winners and some kids. A family is likely better off with one or two Solos than a big ICEd vehicle if the kids are within walking distance of school or ride buses. Another likely configuration is a Solo and a small multipassenger EV. EMV has a roadmap and it leads to progress.
My blog is an eclectic list of rants and commentary about things for which I care. See MrPogson.com It's been around a decade...
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#16
(11-15-2017, 01:46 AM)Rickb Wrote:
(11-15-2017, 01:22 AM)Janet6196 Wrote: Advantage - Zonshen are cheap. Quality as you state, not so much.
Janet, Zongshen certainly provides for a more affordable SOLO MSRP.  However, my research on the Zongshen Group indicates they build cycles of varying degrees of quality...............low quality to very high quality depending on the brand specifications.  If you think Kroll is out to build a cheap, inferior quality product I would disagree based on the EMV Team members, the company vision, and dedication to get a variety of EVs to market.  If Zongshen can't supply a vehicle that meets EMV's high quality standards, Kroll wouldn't have partnered with that manufacturing group. IMO.  I don't look at Harley, Piaggio, Vespa, and the future Electra Meccanica as cheap poor quality Brand names.  

Keep in mind that the SOLO parts that are currently being assembled in Vancouver are being sourced from "around the world".

However, if your opinion that Kroll is building cheap low quality EVs plays out, I doubt either of us will buy one.
Manufacturing in China is not a problem, the design is in Canada. The concern is what quality of parts are used. Space age composite, Wilwood brakes, batteries etc ?
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#17
(11-15-2017, 10:33 AM)Lotus Wrote: Manufacturing in China is not a problem, the design is in Canada. The concern is what quality of parts are used. Space age composite, Wilwood brakes, batteries etc ?

I've bought a lot of stuff from China. Quality is not a problem. Sometimes communication is because of language but EMV has Chinese speakers aboard and that's covered.

e.g. I've been a shooter for decades. I had one rifle that would not shoot well at all despite trying several US and Japanese branded scopes. As a last resort, I installed a cheap Chinese scope. Groups sizes went down from ~2 MOA to 0.4MOA and the scope survived. The other scopes fell apart or just rattled inside under the recoil.

e.g. I bought a rototiller from Sears. It needed repairs in 15 minutes of operation. Literally, the wheels fell off. It needed a new transmission in one year. I bought a tiller from China and it is no worse for wear after two years and did the job in a fraction of the time the smaller Sears tiller did. I saved money even though I shipped the thing by sea and trucked it from Vancouver to my place.

e.g. I bought a bunch of NimH cells from China. The D-cells were great. The AA-cells were great. The AAA cells had nowhere near the advertised capacity. They weren't junk, just mislabelled.

e.g. I bought a hundred pounds of welding rods from China. They were ugly. The welds were beautiful. I saved at least ⅔ of the cost.

I haven't bought anything but seeds from China that did not function properly. I think the seeds were sterilized at the border... Everything else worked. I'm not the least concerned about Solos being made in China. EMV can make them anywhere as long as I get mine.
My blog is an eclectic list of rants and commentary about things for which I care. See MrPogson.com It's been around a decade...
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#18
(11-15-2017, 09:25 AM)pogson Wrote:
(11-15-2017, 01:46 AM)Rickb Wrote: Keep in mind that the SOLO parts that are currently being assembled in Vancouver are being sourced from "around the world".

One of the key elements of Solo that gives me confidence is that Solo has a simple design that can be built anywhere. That's what the world needs for an EV that fills the commuter niche in or near cities all over the world. Perhaps eventually every large city will have a Solo factory. For now, until the niche is crowded, EMV has an opportunity to take a huge market share and a lead in this niche and China can help. China has the capacity to ship a lot of Solos much sooner than Canada. Being first to market is vital. Solo's design makes that possible.

The comparable technologies are not the ICEd passenger car but the bicycle and the motorcycle. Those are built all around the world just as Solo will be. Solo has a huge advantage over those technologies because of comfort, safety and total enclosure. ICEd passenger cars are a competing technology which has been demonstrated to be problematic in large cities all over the world. The market for EVs will be huge and Solo will have a major share of that because families typically have one or two bread winners and some kids. A family is likely better off with one or two Solos than a big ICEd vehicle if the kids are within walking distance of school or ride buses. Another likely configuration is a Solo and a small multipassenger EV. EMV has a roadmap and it leads to progress.
If a family needs more than one SOLO, better to consider one SOLO and One FUV (2 seater) to offer a little more function and flexibility for 2 passengers......taking your kid to school on the way to work, or taking your wife out for dinner on all the money saved on the cost of gas and vehicle maintenance.

(11-15-2017, 10:33 AM)Lotus Wrote:
(11-15-2017, 01:46 AM)Rickb Wrote:
(11-15-2017, 01:22 AM)Janet6196 Wrote: Advantage - Zonshen are cheap. Quality as you state, not so much.
Janet, Zongshen certainly provides for a more affordable SOLO MSRP.  However, my research on the Zongshen Group indicates they build cycles of varying degrees of quality...............low quality to very high quality depending on the brand specifications.  If you think Kroll is out to build a cheap, inferior quality product I would disagree based on the EMV Team members, the company vision, and dedication to get a variety of EVs to market.  If Zongshen can't supply a vehicle that meets EMV's high quality standards, Kroll wouldn't have partnered with that manufacturing group. IMO.  I don't look at Harley, Piaggio, Vespa, and the future Electra Meccanica as cheap poor quality Brand names.  

Keep in mind that the SOLO parts that are currently being assembled in Vancouver are being sourced from "around the world".

However, if your opinion that Kroll is building cheap low quality EVs plays out, I doubt either of us will buy one.
Manufacturing in China is not a problem, the design is in Canada. The concern is what quality of parts are used. Space age composite, Wilwood brakes, batteries etc ?
Zongshen will use the same composite frame, Wilwood brakes, battery pack, etc.. The SOLO will be built to EMV specifications regardless of where it's manufactured or assembled.
White Hot Solo #166
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#19
In my opinion EMV has lost the edge. $15k Solo or $30k for a real car - Kia. 2018 will bring many electric vehicles on the market. $40B will not be enough to hep EMV recover the lead time lost.
Solo Alpha Series #64 Silver
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#20
Janet,  It sounds like you are thinking about or have already gotten a refund on your Signature Series SOLO #64 reservation or possibly maintain an Elio Reservation Match?  Still a no risk scenario if the final production SOLO falls short of your expectations.  Have you test driven the SOLO?   

The SOLO and/or the FUV three wheelers edge is affordability and both serve as supplements to the real car............a Kia, Tesla, or whatever the primary family vehicle happens to be.
White Hot Solo #166
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