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On the rise?
#1
http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/ecctf

Anyone game on getting in on a few shares?
I understand it's more than doubled since inception...
Required listening... House of Lords - Can't find my way home
This version kicks. There's just no other way to describe it. Shivers. Turn...it...up!
Disclaimer: No false statistics were supported, displayed or harmed in the making of this post.
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#2
No thanks. I can't afford to gamble on new startup vehicle companies with no sales revenue. Smile
White Hot Solo #166
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#3
(09-25-2017, 08:37 PM)Rickb Wrote: No thanks.  I can't afford to gamble on new startup vehicle companies with no sales revenue.  Smile

It's not exactly "no sales revenue". EMV aren't giving away Solos... They just aren't making enough yet to be viable. I'd gamble on ECCTF if I weren't already fully invested in other risky ventures. The volume of sales of ECCTF needs to be an order of magnitude higher before the volume would make it worthwhile. It would be kind of neat if one invested $3000 in the stock and paid for one's Solo with the capital gains. Unfortunately, it would take nearly a week to sell enough shares to pay for one Solo. That's an eternity for a volatile stock.
My blog is an eclectic list of rants and commentary about things for which I care. See MrPogson.com It's been around a decade...
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#4
(09-26-2017, 06:15 AM)pogson Wrote:
(09-25-2017, 08:37 PM)Rickb Wrote: No thanks.  I can't afford to gamble on new startup vehicle companies with no sales revenue.  Smile

It's not exactly "no sales revenue". EMV aren't giving away Solos... They just aren't making enough yet to be viable. I'd gamble on ECCTF if I weren't already fully invested in other risky ventures. The volume of sales of ECCTF needs to be an order of magnitude higher before the volume would make it worthwhile. It would be kind of neat if one invested $3000 in the stock and paid for one's Solo with the capital gains. Unfortunately, it would take nearly a week to sell enough shares to pay for one Solo. That's an eternity for a volatile stock.
What gives me pause is unproven market demand for a single seater and the fact that the 1000 Signature Series SOLOs are not SOLD OUT.  I believe there are only 579 reservations after 1-2 years of development, opening 2 Retail SOLO Stores, and attending a host of public events for PR purposes.  

If one chooses to invest in the stock market for profit to pay for a Solo or provide for a secure retirement there are low to no risk options.  ECCTF is high risk.  "Never lose money", Warren Buffet
White Hot Solo #166
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#5
(09-26-2017, 11:45 AM)Rickb Wrote: What gives me pause is unproven market demand for a single seater and the fact that the 1000 Signature Series SOLOs are not SOLD OUT.  I believe there are only 579 reservations after 1-2 years of development, opening 2 Retail SOLO Stores, and attending a host of public events for PR purposes.  

If one chooses to invest in the stock market for profit to pay for a Solo or provide for a secure retirement there are low to no risk options.  ECCTF is high risk.  "Never lose money", Warren Buffet

While EMV has had some press, they haven't seriously advertised Solo. Most of their advertising is specific to Vancouver, a city of 2.5million people over the metropolitan area. While the pins on SoloOwners.net are spread out, most of the people with reservations are likely very close to Vancouver. Otherwise there would be other dealerships and show-rooms open already. So, hundreds of would-be Solo-owners in such a small population, probably with money to spare, thinking EV, and OK with 1 seat is OK when production isn't huge yet. There are several layers, barriers to adoption, some of which can be overcome by advertising and some not. If production were dozens per day and sales weren't keeping pace, there would be reason to worry. I think the reception Solo has received among those who are even aware of Solo has been decent. I'm not worried at all about acceptance. With all the households I see having two or more vehicles, adding an EV, even a Solo should be widely accepted. The current low price of gasoline doesn't help acceptance but environmental awareness of zero-emission vehicles and the performance of Solo are winners.

As far as risk goes, I wouldn't put ECCTF as high risk but moderate risk. Certainly EMV could go to nothing but there are still many ways it can be quite successful: staying small, ramping up, building overseas, ... It's not even clear it can run out of money in the present mode as they can actually sell a product, as much as they like or obtain further investment. Further, most investors should have some diversification including stuff with higher risk. It is pretty easy to beat inflation, even get ~10% or so over a long term, but with the right choices one can do much better. I like risky investments particularly when I'm investing money I don't need for anything else, like staying alive. If I lose some or all of the investment, I'm still OK. If the investment works as planned, I have money to burn. Presently, I've invested heavily in a small company with huge upside and small downside. I might lose half my money, but I don't care, I'm "asset rich" as are a lot of retirees. My wife and I have made 50-100% on every home in which we've lived and the current one is worth enough to live the rest of our days if we sold it and the kids have flown the nest. We just don't need it. OTOH, the retirement investment that I've made has doubled in value repeatedly and still has lots of upside.

Warren Buffet gives good advice but he has lost money in the past, more than most of us do in a lifetime. You can't make big bucks without taking some risk and with risk comes temporary setbacks. It's good if one can never lose money but if one is thoughtful one can make sure losing is not a disaster. Other good advice for investors include: investing in one's self, investing in stocks as well as other things, don't follow the crowd, and don't keep more balls in the air than you can manage.

A story: Once, long ago, I first became involved in stocks as investments. A good investment grew and grew. It became obvious that the growth could not continue. There were three choices:
  1. Do nothing and see how it rolled.
  2. Sell and invest in petroleum.
  3. Sell and buy it back at a lower price.
3 was the option chosen and we lost most of the money because the value kept falling. If we'd done 2, the investment probably would have become worth $3-4million. If we'd done 1, the investment would have become worth $10million. It was a learning experience but not a disaster. We still had our home which more than doubled in value in those years. My wife quit investing in stocks. I've made money on nearly every trade since. The risks of any investment don't matter if everything turns out OK. With care one can manage risks either by offsetting them, guessing right or only risking what you can afford to lose.

It's too soon to know how EMV will turn out but it's such a good product that I'd bet on them winning. Intermeccanica/EMV have too many vehicles on the road that people love to bet on them losing. When I free up more cash, which is likely by 2018, I'd buy another Solo and some stock too.
My blog is an eclectic list of rants and commentary about things for which I care. See MrPogson.com It's been around a decade...
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#6
ECCTF and FUV are BOTH high risk ventures in my opinion as new vehicle startups with no proven market acceptance.  I believe the forward looking statements written to cover their butts verifies the risk.   My personal assumption that people will accept a one or two passenger commuter motorcycle has no value to merit investing.  Supporting one or both with a moderate emotional investment is certainly an option.    

Buffet doesn't lose money with his don't lose money investment strategy.  He invests in financially sound and proven companies having low to mostly no risk.

Arcimoto has 1700+ SRK Reservations with a similar marketing strategy, but no retail stores similar to the 2 SOLO Store locations in high traffic malls.  The 1000 Signature Series SOLOs is small market acceptance numbers in the big scheme of scaling production to validate wild and crazy market acceptance.
White Hot Solo #166
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#7
(09-26-2017, 03:36 PM)Rickb Wrote: Buffet doesn't lose money with his don't lose money investment strategy.  He invests in financially sound and proven companies having low to mostly no risk.

In 2014, Buffett lost $444 million on Tesco (<-link). Of course, he could afford it. It was only a fraction of 1% of BH's net worth. Otherwise, he is nearly perfect but not perfect. Everyone loses money from time to time because there are unforeseen events. There are tools to minimize risk and manage risk but when there are risks there are losses. I'm certain Buffett is a better investor than I but I've done just fine since I retired. In two years, I gained 500% with only a couple of steps backwards. He has averaged 19% p.a. over many years. I'm happy. He's happy. He chooses solid performers. I choose small companies with great ideas and the ability to execute. I wouldn't have a clue where to put all the $billions he invests. Perhaps I would buy gold bars and build a house out of them... I do know how to invest my pension. It's of a size that fits my imagination, just like Solo.
My blog is an eclectic list of rants and commentary about things for which I care. See MrPogson.com It's been around a decade...
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#8
(09-26-2017, 11:45 AM)Rickb Wrote: "Never lose money", Warren Buffet

"It's not lost... I just haven't found it yet.", DiscjockeyDale
Required listening... House of Lords - Can't find my way home
This version kicks. There's just no other way to describe it. Shivers. Turn...it...up!
Disclaimer: No false statistics were supported, displayed or harmed in the making of this post.
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#9
(09-26-2017, 08:20 PM)pogson Wrote:
(09-26-2017, 03:36 PM)Rickb Wrote: Buffet doesn't lose money with his don't lose money investment strategy.  He invests in financially sound and proven companies having low to mostly no risk.

In 2014, Buffett lost $444 million on Tesco (<-link). Of course, he could afford it. It was only a fraction of 1% of BH's net worth. Otherwise, he is nearly perfect but not perfect. Everyone loses money from time to time because there are unforeseen events. There are tools to minimize risk and manage risk but when there are risks there are losses. I'm certain Buffett is a better investor than I but I've done just fine since I retired. In two years, I gained 500% with only a couple of steps backwards. He has averaged 19% p.a. over many years. I'm happy. He's happy. He chooses solid performers. I choose small companies with great ideas and the ability to execute. I wouldn't have a clue where to put all the $billions he invests. Perhaps I would buy gold bars and build a house out of them... I do know how to invest my pension. It's of a size that fits my imagination, just like Solo.
I'm certain Buffet is the best investor.  Stocks go up, stocks go down.  If I was to consider high risk investing in a new vehicle startup company (FUV)it would have to be one with a good idea and the proven ability to execute a product to the cusp of production that I want to buy.  However, without proven market acceptance, it's not wise investing, it's gambling.  I'm glad you have had a good luck success rate on your investments.
White Hot Solo #166
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#10
(09-27-2017, 01:08 PM)Rickb Wrote: without proven market acceptance, it's not wise investing, it's gambling.  I'm glad you have had a good luck success rate on your investments.

That's not true. If EMV decides to remain small, they have plenty of proven market acceptance. Even with one assembly line they can be profitable, assuming they do actually put it into production. Market acceptance would be an issue if they do end up with one or more big factories. One can invest wisely in a small business as a big one. It may seem like EMV is a higher risk, but it's not. At this stage they have lots of flexibility as they have not yet bet the farm on being big. Gambling would be paying a high price for the shares after they go big assuming they will go bigger. Lots of businesses fail soon after going big because they are in debt or costs are unsustainable. EMV is still very manageable.

Far more critical than market acceptance is getting National Safety Mark for Canada and the equivalent for USA. That expands their market ~1000 times no matter the size it has now. Even if market acceptance is poor by normal standards EMV can be hugely profitable and viable just selling to old coots like me and some commuters. Even if only 0.1% of suitable customers actually buys it is many thousands of Solos that can be sold.
My blog is an eclectic list of rants and commentary about things for which I care. See MrPogson.com It's been around a decade...
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