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When A Spec Is Not A Spec
#11
(09-17-2017, 01:46 AM)SparkE Wrote: OK, first : the "charger" is in the vehicle; it is NOT the thing you plug into the wall and then into the vehicle. That is called an EVSE. What happens is that the EVSE will tell the car how many amps it can pull, and the car can pull any amount up to that max. The *car* decides how much to pull...

5th, the numbers for 240V charge time (3 hours) are about right (so long as the charger in the car can pull at least 5.8 kW, which would be about a 24Amp charger).
...

I agree with SparkE's comment. Looking at some 18650 specs (<-link) :

"3.1 Nominal Capacity      2600mAh (0.2C, 2.75V discharge)
3.2 Minimum Capacity      2550mAh(0.2C, 2.75V discharge)
3.3 Charging Voltage                4.2 V±0.05 V
3.4 Nominal Voltage                  3.63V
3.5 Charging Method                    CC-CV
                        (constant voltage with limited current)
                            
3.6 Charging Current Standard charge: 1300mA
                                Rapid charge : 2600mA
                             
3.7 Charging Time Standard charge : 3hours
                                 Rapid charge : 2.5hours
3.8 Max. Charge Current  2600mA(ambient temperature 25C)"

The capacity of a single cell is about 10Wh. A 16.1kWh battery would have about 1600 cells. The maximum charging power, at the point where a changeover is made from constant current to constant voltage, would be 4.2V X 1.3A = 5.46W. For 1600 cells that would be 8.7kW. So, it is possible for single cells well cooled. What happens when they are stacked closely together in a battery-compartment? I think the temperature will rise to the point where that is the limiting factor. The heating in the small space of the battery-compartment is a concern. Those makers recommend stopping the charging at 45C.

Again, Nissan Leaf, which has a similar sized battery takes longer than 3h even though it can do the rapid charging to 80% in 30 minutes.

See https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-ve...range.html

"Charge overnight using a 32A home charging unit and reach full charge in approximately seven hours (24kWh) or nine and a half hours (30kWh). With the optional 6.6kW on-board charger you can reduce this time to just four hours for the 24kWh battery, or five and a half hours with the 30kWh battery."

4h (24kWh) is not 4/5 (80%) of 5.5h (30kWh), but 72%, so a smaller battery is faster to charge per kWh. We can expect 3h for a 16 kWh battery. Nissan is OK with 7-9.5h charging as I expect most consumers will be and they have an option for faster charging. However, we still don't know the capacity of the on-board charger in Solo.

EMV was showing 3h/6h for an 8.64kWh battery...

See http://electrameccanica.com/wp-content/u...ecs2-1.pdf

Have they upgraded both the battery and the charger or just the charger? I don't know.
My blog is an eclectic list of rants and commentary about things for which I care. See MrPogson.com It's been around a decade...
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#12
After the design, engineering, and thousands of test miles on 8 pre-production SOLOs was complete, is finalizing the SOLO's component specs really that difficult?  It's a battery and a charger.  EMV engineers should specify one or the other and move on to upgrading their manufacturing and assembly process.
White Hot Solo #166
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#13
Somebody at EMV needs to find a competent web person to work with a competent engineer and look at every single page on the web site and fix the mistakes. I can't believe that spec sheet is still on the site! "8.64 kW/h Lithium Ion Battery" is so 2016 (they changed that over a year ago, to 16.1 kWh).
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#14
also, Per Mr. Koch "both side doors are functional."
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#15
(09-17-2017, 09:15 PM)Lynn D Wrote: also, Per Mr. Koch "both side doors are functional."

I have mixed feelings about two doors. For four decades I've been a driver and always used the left-side door. Having a choice means making decisions which I agonize over... I'm not the executive type. I need a reason to choose one door over another. I can see a checklist/flowchart being developed... As a passenger or driver, it's been easy. There's one preferred door, the nearest, and one takes appropriate precautions before opening the door. With Solo, a whole new universe of solutions and problems arises.

Obviously, avoiding traffic on the left is a huge plus for safety, but it could endanger joggers/pedestrians/skateboarders on the right. It's a whole new algorithm for exiting the car. On top of this, I'm rather inflexible physically and mentally so it will take some retraining. I don't think I'm too old to learn new tricks.
My blog is an eclectic list of rants and commentary about things for which I care. See MrPogson.com It's been around a decade...
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#16
I find that I use what would be described as the passenger door 90% of the time.  When we first got the Solo I was using the driver side door but ended up with a huge bruise on my butt.  I kept plunking myself down on the seat belt connector.  I have since learned the art of getting in gracefully on the passenger side.  On occasion it is necessary to use the driver side door if a sidewalk is too high.
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#17
Sparks, I second your statement about a tech savvy engineer stating/representing EMV.
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#18
The website specifications will most likely change when the engineer's finalize the SOLOs specifications. I think we are all tech savvy enough to know what this vehicle is or we wouldn't have placed reservations.  Specs have improved greatly since I placed my reservation, and they are likely to get even better by the time I receive notification to accept or decline delivery.  Currently the SOLO appears that it will exceed my expectations to include production and delivery progress.   

Production and deliveries are SOSLOW.
White Hot Solo #166
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