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New Video by Boofighter!
#1


Required listening... House of Lords - Can't find my way home
This version kicks. There's just no other way to describe it. Shivers. Turn...it...up!
Disclaimer: No false statistics were supported, displayed or harmed in the making of this post.
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#2
Thanks for the video. It adds a few gems, some of which we sort of knew but it's great to have them affirmed:
  • heating for the battery - I was thinking heat leaking from the driver's compartment to the battery would be enough but they added heating.
  • 160km range apparently is still a key design parameter
  • the hood has a second latch to prevent popping open in the slipstream
  • the driver feels the comfort at least for the first few minutes. I've driven vehicles which were uncomfortable from the start so this is welcome.
  • I am not alone in liking the shape and aerodynamics. They are a big part of making Solo so efficient.
  • still no tests in a "real" winter but I think we are OK on traction. I bet that tight skirt on the back wheel went away as snow built up on it in Vancouver's mild winter.
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#3
So the batteries only preform well in a particular temp. range and they use the heater to heat them and the A/C to keep them cool, but the A/C is not yet in the cars only being bench tested, so we know that without it the batteries will not function at their best. I'm glad to wait until the A/C is installed not just for the comfort but also the performance.
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#4
(09-06-2017, 06:30 PM)Chris Wrote: I'm glad to wait until the A/C is installed not just for the comfort but also the performance.

The performance of the battery is not bad in high temperatures but it might affect longevity. At low temperatures the mobility of the lithium ions is reduced leading to less efficient charge and discharge. I doubt AC or heating will help much on short trips as it takes a while for the heat to penetrate. Think thawing a turkey or boiling water on the stove. Heat flows by convection, radiation and transport. It's fine to blow heated/cooled air into the battery's compartment but it takes time for the heating or cooling of the actual cells to take place by conduction.

The rate of heat transport by conduction goes as the temperature difference divided by the thickness needed to penetrate. We Canadians often dash from one building to another at -40C relying on that principle. We can make the move faster than we can freeze our noses or put on and take off a parka. Similarly, if you cool your house with AC it may take an hour to get much benefit after you turn on the AC.

The question then turns to the length of the commute. If it's less than 30 minutes, I doubt either heat or AC would affect the battery. Some EVs allow heaters to be on during charging in cold weather so that would take care of short trips without draining the battery during the trip. It would just take longer to charge the battery. Solo's driver's compartment heater is a few hundred watts and affects range ~10%. That would probably be OK for commuters in cold weather. I guess AC would be a similar effect.

I would not be concerned with either heating or cooling as I doubt I would take any long trips at temperatures colder than the battery can take in stride, say -20C. I like to hunt deer in October where temperatures rarely go below 0C here. I can easily choose to do my usual errands in the cool of the morning to avoid hot weather. I'm retired so I can plan my trips around the weather.

See Battery University Discharging At High And Low Temperatures (link)
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#5
(09-06-2017, 07:05 PM)pogson Wrote:
(09-06-2017, 06:30 PM)Chris Wrote: I'm glad to wait until the A/C is installed not just for the comfort but also the performance.

The performance of the battery is not bad in high temperatures but it might affect longevity. At low temperatures the mobility of the lithium ions is reduced leading to less efficient charge and discharge. I doubt AC or heating will help much on short trips as it takes a while for the heat to penetrate. Think thawing a turkey or boiling water on the stove. Heat flows by convection, radiation and transport. It's fine to blow heated/cooled air into the battery's compartment but it takes time for the heating or cooling of the actual cells to take place by conduction.

The rate of heat transport by conduction goes as the temperature difference divided by the thickness needed to penetrate. We Canadians often dash from one building to another at -40C relying on that principle. We can make the move faster than we can freeze our noses or put on and take off a parka. Similarly, if you cool your house with AC it may take an hour to get much benefit after you turn on the AC.

The question then turns to the length of the commute. If it's less than 30 minutes, I doubt either heat or AC would affect the battery. Some EVs allow heaters to be on during charging in cold weather so that would take care of short trips without draining the battery during the trip. It would just take longer to charge the battery. Solo's driver's compartment heater is a few hundred watts and affects range ~10%. That would probably be OK for commuters in cold weather. I guess AC would be a similar effect.

I would not be concerned with either heating or cooling as I doubt I would take any long trips at temperatures colder than the battery can take in stride, say -20C. I like to hunt deer in October where temperatures rarely go below 0C here. I can easily choose to do my usual errands in the cool of the morning to avoid hot weather. I'm retired so I can plan my trips around the weather.

See Battery University Discharging At High And Low Temperatures (link)
Thanks for the lesson. Makes sense to me but I wonder why if it has such a minor effect why would they be promoting this like it would be such a plus and why would you use any of the cabin's air to support such a minor effect. The Solo has a limited range so from what you point out it makes little sense. I was thinking more on the lines of when you place your home A/C unit in a cooler or shaded area or cool the air around the evaporator your A/C will be more efficient. I can tell you this if my Solo does not have A/C here in Scottsdale AZ. I will not be an efficient driver for about four months of the year. Thanks again for all of your posts, if I can't drive one yet at least I like to read about it.
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#6
(09-07-2017, 06:38 PM)Chris Wrote: Thanks again for all of your posts, if I can't drive one yet at least I like to read about it.

I intend to write lots about the performance and utility of Solo if EMV ever sells me one. I've planned road trips. I've planned a crawl of the nearest city. I have a section of highway where I can do proper tests of range v speed etc. I want to test it in a Manitoban winter. I want to polish it. I want to write an "unauthorized user's manual" because I seem to care about things EMV doesn't, like specs and data. I plan on setting up a Level 2 charging station for my Solo, powered by Sun.

I'm old. I'm beginning to think I will die before I can carry out half my plans... Meanwhile I'm planting green things to fight global warming another way. I planted millions of grass-seeds today and I received in the mail thousands more tree-seeds. It's OK to putter around the yard when you're as old as I am but it would be more fun to be able to jump in my Solo and go someplace just because I can without breaking the bank or sabotaging the environment.
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#7
Relax, Everything is running right on schedule. The SOLO specs can't be documented until they are finalized.
White Hot Solo #166
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#8
(09-07-2017, 09:05 PM)pogson Wrote: Meanwhile I'm planting green things to fight global warming another way. I planted millions of grass-seeds today and I received in the mail thousands more tree-seeds. It's OK to putter around the yard when you're as old as I am but it would be more fun to be able to jump in my Solo and go someplace just because I can without breaking the bank or sabotaging the environment.

You need to put your website in your signature line! Interesting stuff. Please share!
Required listening... House of Lords - Can't find my way home
This version kicks. There's just no other way to describe it. Shivers. Turn...it...up!
Disclaimer: No false statistics were supported, displayed or harmed in the making of this post.
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#9
(09-07-2017, 10:01 PM)DiscjockeyDale Wrote: You need to put your website in your signature line! Interesting stuff. Please share!

Done. Folks can narrow their read by selecting Solo EV or renewable energy tags unless they want to read about my deliverance from the clutches of M$ or my lifelong fascination with food, hunting, gardening, shooting...
My blog is an eclectic list of rants and commentary about things for which I care. See MrPogson.com It's been around a decade...
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