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June CEO Report
#31
Hi

I understand there will be plenty of data available in future, missing the point. the point i am trying to make is that jerry or emv could release that data today, as they are driving around since last september. this way we can make an well informed decision, saying that 160km range is not we need more info, may be that info is enough for some, definitely not enough every one on this forum.

its just simple thing drive a day take a picture and post it, thats is definitely not taking lot of resources, in todays techy world, hardly take less than 30 minutes even if they have to read instructions how to do it.

please stop making excuses for jerry or emv

Hi all

If you look at the specs down on the main page of emv there are two separate claims of range, first one says 100mile range, and under battery info says upto 100 miles

if you look at my experience posted above, in my driving conditions using 55 to 70% of available total of 18.8kwh i can drive 70miles, one extrapolate the numbers to give you the final numbers

i would like to know more info before i venture into any thing like this ,

by calling this efficient and fast is also not fair unless you compare to turtles, look at recent update to tesla speeds updateshttps://electrek.co/2017/07/01/tesla-new-performance-enhancements-model-s-model-x/
i3 with 18.8kwh lot more heavier than solo gives 80miles on highway range and 0-60 is 7.9 secs carrying a weight of atlas 2700lbs

compared to solo which is 16.1kwh upto 100 miles (don't know if thats highway or combined) and 0-60 is 8 seconds carrying a weight of around 1300lbs as they last talked about,

efficiency is only a minor bump , don't know if anyone is done it, if they strip down the i3, take out all the stuff just like the racing guys do, i3 might give the same numbers in terms of range, it already beats the solo in terms of the speed

only thing i think emv is offering is small size and access to hov lanes,

only reason i am still looking/ thinking at this is access to hov lanes,
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#32
(07-02-2017, 10:02 AM)ram Wrote: Hi

I understand there will be plenty of data available in future,  missing the point.  the point i am trying to make is that jerry or emv could release that data today, as they are driving around since last september. this way we can make an well informed decision,  saying that 160km range  is not we need more info,  may be that info is enough for some,  definitely not enough every one on this forum.

its just simple thing drive a day take a picture and post it, thats is definitely not taking lot of resources, in todays techy world, hardly take less than 30 minutes even if they have to read instructions how to do it.

please stop making excuses for jerry or emv

Hi all

If you look at the specs down on the main page of emv  there are two separate claims of range, first one says 100mile range,  and under battery info  says upto 100 miles

if you look at my experience posted above, in my driving conditions  using 55 to 70% of available  total of 18.8kwh i can drive 70miles, one extrapolate the numbers to give you the final numbers

i would like to know more info  before i venture into any thing like this ,  

by calling this efficient and fast is also not fair unless you compare to turtles,  look at recent update to tesla speeds updateshttps://electrek.co/2017/07/01/tesla-new-performance-enhancements-model-s-model-x/
i3 with 18.8kwh lot more heavier than solo gives 80miles on highway range and 0-60 is 7.9 secs  carrying  a weight of atlas 2700lbs

compared to solo which is 16.1kwh upto 100 miles (don't know if thats highway or combined) and 0-60 is 8 seconds  carrying a weight of around 1300lbs as they last talked about,

efficiency is only a  minor bump ,  don't know if anyone is done it, if they strip down the i3, take out all the stuff just like the racing guys do, i3 might give the same numbers in terms of range, it already beats the solo in terms of the speed

only thing i think emv is offering is small size and access to hov lanes,

only reason i am still looking/ thinking at this is access to hov lanes,

According to Jerry, people are getting 160km or more range from Solo. That and the inescapable facts that batteries and motors have high efficiency and Solo has a much smaller cross-sectional area than most other cars leads me to conclude that Solo will be more efficient, perhaps getting 10km/kWh instead of 5.7. Solo also has less weight, less rolling resistance and a very good shape. Some proper numbers to confirm would be great but a lack thereof is not a game-changer for me. I trust my reasoning. I have a M.Sc. in physics and I've done a lot of ballistics. The air drag varies as cross-sectional area X the usual constants X the square of the speed. That applies to all cars and Solo has a large advantage over most wider cars, almost a factor of two (2 doors and 2 people width versus 2 doors and 1 person width) in km/kwH at a given highway speed/temperature/wind/slope. Solo should also win on rolling resistance for having less weight and fewer wheels. That matters mostly at low speeds because the air-resistance is huge at high speeds. There could be differences of a few percent in efficiency of charging/storage/motor but this is mature tech and all are in the same ballpark. I will be driving my Solo about 80% highway so air-drag is key to my decision. Smaller is way better.

The smaller battery means shorter charging times which will be important for longer trips. Solo is a winner. Jerry doesn't need apologists. He's given a conservative number suitable for the vehicle's intended use and allowing for deterioration of the battery over the period of the warranty (~ -20%).
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#33
Ram, was your "please stop making excuses for Jerry and EMV" directed at my reply that there will be future data from early adopter Signature Series SOLOists?

If you need the data or don't trust Jerry and the EMV Team...........simply don't buy it until your personal required data is available.  Hell I'm happy EMV was able to fund, R&D, track test, build, and deliver a production model SOLO in less than 2 years since I've been following the announcement of the SOLO Concept. No excuses necessary. 

Styling, performance, range +- current specs meet my personal needs and I apologize if you thought I presumed the Solo should meet your personal expectations.  If we all agreed there would be no reason for friendly discussion.
White Hot Solo #166
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#34
(06-30-2017, 09:30 PM)DiscjockeyDale Wrote: Why do people continue to insist on saying that the Solo does not have regen?

Because so far, the only place this has been specified has been Jerry's mouth - not in a spec sheet or listed any place on the web site that I have found. And we all know what "Jerry said" means : it could be wrong, he could be mistaken, it could be wishful thinking. Considering all those other things "Jerry said" that turned out to not be true ...

Regen isn't something easily strapped on (like power windows) - it's pretty integral to/with the electric motor. Going from "no regen - it just isn't needed" to "of course it has it" is a little more complicated than changing a few words. And it could mean a different motor, which would invalidate a lot of testing already completed.

That is why I am not accepting that the Solo actually has regen, just because Jerry opened his mouth and new words came out a couple of months ago.
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#35
(07-02-2017, 11:53 AM)SparkE Wrote:
(06-30-2017, 09:30 PM)DiscjockeyDale Wrote: Why do people continue to insist on saying that the Solo does not have regen?

Because so far, the only place this has been specified has been Jerry's mouth - not in a spec sheet or listed any place on the web site that I have found. And we all know what "Jerry said" means : it could be wrong, he could be mistaken, it could be wishful thinking. Considering all those other things "Jerry said" that turned out to not be true ...

Regen isn't something easily strapped on (like power windows) - it's pretty integral to/with the electric motor. Going from "no regen - it just isn't needed" to "of course it has it" is a little more complicated than changing a few words. And it could mean a different motor, which would invalidate a lot of testing already completed.

That is why I am not accepting that the Solo actually has regen, just because Jerry opened his mouth and new words came out a couple of months ago.
I respect opinions that don't insinuate name calling. I suggest you find a three wheeler concept with the specified regen and other specs that meets your personal needs; developed by start up company with people you trust.  Check out Elio Motors, Sondors, or Arcimoto.     

The SOLO checks 'most' of my personal needs boxes with some added improvements made during the various builds and testing of the pre-production SOLOs.  I can't ass.u.me EMV should check every single box, after all,  every nut and bolt is Jerry's and Henry's vision, not mine.  "Drive what you like, Like what you drive" (built/sold/and serviced by a company that you trust will stand behind it).
White Hot Solo #166
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#36
(07-02-2017, 11:53 AM)SparkE Wrote: Because so far, the only place this has been specified has been Jerry's mouth - not in a spec sheet or listed any place on the web site that I have found. And we all know what "Jerry said" means : it could be wrong, he could be mistaken, it could be wishful thinking. Considering all those other things "Jerry said" that turned out to not be true ...

Regen isn't something easily strapped on (like power windows) - it's pretty integral to/with the electric motor. Going from "no regen - it just isn't needed" to "of course it has it" is a little more complicated than changing a few words. And it could mean a different motor, which would invalidate a lot of testing already completed.

That is why I am not accepting that the Solo actually has regen, just because Jerry opened his mouth and new words came out a couple of months ago.

I believe that if you re-examine some of the road test reviews, reviewers have mentioned the fact that the vehicle seems to have regen.
The fact that no-one has reported it to be entirely "free-wheeling" when not "under power" leads me to believe that there is, and has always been, regen.
I feel fairly confident that someone would have remarked about it "free-wheeling" by now if it were an attribute of the Solo.
People who own EVs and have done more research than I have stated that regen is built into all EV drives.

If Qubit didn't mention whether or not the Solo "free-wheeled" when he test drove it, I'm sure he wouldn't mind commented on it now.
If he did mention it (as I seem to remember), I'm sure he wouldn't mind repeating himself for our benefit.

I also seem to remember that Jerry even reported how many miles he recovered going down that long hill from the scenic point near Vancouver.

The facts are that yes, Jerry says that there is mild regen. The test drivers seem to indicate characteristics that point to that fact.
I'm just saying that it seems rather obvious that there is regen on the Solo and without providing evidence to the contrary...
I feel it's rather irresponsible to matter-of-flatly state that the Solo does not yet have regen on a public forum.

If you've noticed, I generally don't take things at face value and have a tendency to call BS in both directions in a fair and impartial manner.

But on the other hand, if this had been presented as entirely an opinion and not fact, I would have had no problem with it.
And, now that you've seemed to have redefined it as being entirely an opinion, I don't have a problem with it at all.
Nor do I have a problem with any other opinions that are clearly represented as such for that matter.

I may or may not agree with them, but if they're presented as opinions, I respect them and don't have a fundamental issue with them.
Required listening... House of Lords - Can't find my way home
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#37
(07-02-2017, 01:14 PM)DiscjockeyDale Wrote:
(07-02-2017, 11:53 AM)SparkE Wrote: Because so far, the only place this has been specified has been Jerry's mouth - not in a spec sheet or listed any place on the web site that I have found. And we all know what "Jerry said" means : it could be wrong, he could be mistaken, it could be wishful thinking. Considering all those other things "Jerry said" that turned out to not be true ...

Regen isn't something easily strapped on (like power windows) - it's pretty integral to/with the electric motor. Going from "no regen - it just isn't needed" to "of course it has it" is a little more complicated than changing a few words. And it could mean a different motor, which would invalidate a lot of testing already completed.

That is why I am not accepting that the Solo actually has regen, just because Jerry opened his mouth and new words came out a couple of months ago.

I believe that if you re-examine some of the road test reviews, reviewers have mentioned the fact that the vehicle seems to have regen.
The fact that no-one has reported it to be entirely "free-wheeling" when not "under power" leads me to believe that there is, and has always been, regen.
I feel fairly confident that someone would have remarked about it "free-wheeling" by now if it were an attribute of the Solo.
People who own EVs and have done more research than I have stated that regen is built into all EV drives.

If Qubit didn't mention whether or not the Solo "free-wheeled" when he test drove it, I'm sure he wouldn't mind commented on it now.
If he did mention it (as I seem to remember), I'm sure he wouldn't mind repeating himself for our benefit.

I also seem to remember that Jerry even reported how many miles he recovered going down that long hill from the scenic point near Vancouver.

The facts are that yes, Jerry says that there is mild regen. The test drivers seem to indicate characteristics that point to that fact.
I'm just saying that it seems rather obvious that there is regen on the Solo and without providing evidence to the contrary...
I feel it's rather irresponsible to matter-of-flatly state that the Solo does not yet have regen on a public forum.

If you've noticed, I generally don't take things at face value and have a tendency to call BS in both directions in a fair and impartial manner.

But on the other hand, if this had been presented as entirely an opinion and not fact, I would have had no problem with it.
And, now that you've seemed to have redefined it as being entirely an opinion, I don't have a problem with it at all.
Nor do I have a problem with any other opinions that are clearly represented as such for that matter.

I may or may not agree with them, but if they're presented as opinions, I respect them and don't have a fundamental issue with them.

During my test drive, I could definitely feel braking, or slowing, such as from the rear wheel 'driving' the motor.

From everything I've read while trying to educate myself on the basics of electric vehicles, regen is part of the deal.
That is, when the motor is turned by the drive wheel(s), it becomes a source of electricity (generator) that is directed back to the batteries.
Possibly that is a function of the chosen motor controller.

An as yet unanswered question I have is whether different amounts of regen can be built into a motor's design so that one might be able to choose, say, between a cheaper motor with less regen and an upgraded version with an added amount of regen. I doubt it because, while perusing EV motor specs, I've never seen "Regen Amount" listed as a line item.
I have seen "Features regenerative braking and idle function". When I turned on the Black Solo, released the electric brake and moved my foot off the brake pedal the car didn't move until I started pressing the gas pedal  throttle  foot feed  accelerator. So, Idle Function, I guess. Same same at stop and go's.

In any case, I personally consider any regen to be a nice freebie, but largely insignificant and not something I'd think about on a daily basis.
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#38
(07-02-2017, 03:43 PM)Qubit Wrote: In any case, I personally consider any regen to be a nice freebie, but largely insignificant and not something I'd think about on a daily basis.
Yes, by far the most important effect of regen for most drivers is the braking, not saving energy. However, in an EV, the energy regenerated has to go somewhere and there are two choices: heat in the circuitry or charging the battery. Since the electronics is designed for high efficiency, heat is not a good option. ie. the circuitry is about 90% efficient developing mechanical energy delivered to wheels and the mass of the vehicle. It would be silly to have 100% waste while slowing.

Regenerative braking is a huge plus for an EV as it saves the brakes a lot of wear. That adds to the already low-maintenance behaviour of EVs.

Where regen might be important for the ordinary driver is braking in slippery conditions. In an ICEd vehicle with automatic transmission, if one slips and is losing control, taking the foot off the accelerator causes free-wheeling and regaining traction on the driven wheels. In an EV with regen, it might be best to ease up on the pressure on the accelerator rather than removing the foot entirely or a slight touch to the brakes could cause free-wheeling. That information should be in the operator's manual which EMV has declined to publish as preliminary. Solo has an advantage over cars with multiple driven wheels in that the driven wheel is on the midlline and so slippage does not apply a torque unless one of the other two wheels also slips which is less likely if braking is not applied.

I guess this will all be revealed in good time. I'd like to read about it now to keep my sanity while waiting for delivery. Whatever Solo's behaviour I can adapt my driving method to what works best.
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