Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
... and another thing
#1
This is a pic from the Solo website that I wouldn´t have published. Even in a slight curve, it looks decidedly iffy. A bit more and it´d be *rse over T


[Image: t3_1.jpg]
Reply
#2
(09-14-2016, 03:43 AM)paravil Wrote: This is a pic from the Solo website that I wouldn´t have published. Even in a slight curve, it looks decidedly iffy. A bit more and it´d be *rse over T


[Image: t3_1.jpg]
I really don't have any on-hand experience with reverse trikes.
But I would have to think just from the laws of nature and the geometry of them...
That the right front suspension is going to have to take more stress than a four-wheeler's would in a left turn.
It doesn't have it's "mate" in the back to take half the G-force that gets turned into downward motion.
The single back wheel and tire is more like a pivot point in turns, be they great or small...
Than their spaced squatting counterparts on a four wheeler.

I honestly do think it's a part of the nature of the beast of all three-bees.
Like someone else said, it's going to be a compromise between a stiffer ride and/or less body roll.
I'll have to look at the specs too. I honestly think that the front wheels have a wider stance than the sparrow.
And that's a good thing in the *rse and T-cup industry. Plus while they've taken the center of gravity...
down as low as it will go, the heavy batteries are more toward the outer part of the vehicle...
And not smack dab in the middle like, let's say, the Arimoto.

That may or may not affect the amount of body roll. I'm not an Engineer.
With 3 wheels, I believe you have to compromise and barter a little of this for a little of that.
Mother nature says so. I honestly don't think the Solo is anywhere near being in danger of tipping in that shot.

But it is all part of why I really don't want to exceed 80mph even on a straight-away on any trike.
I honestly believe that No reverse trike configuration is ever going to be true LeMans racing material.
It is what it is. It's a trike. It's going to have a bit less stability under certain conditions not because it's a Solo...
But because it's a trike. I'm aware of that going into it, as should all who consider any of the trikes.

I also have to remember that it's being pushed instead of pulled. On a 4-wheeler...
It might not make as much of a difference as it does on a reverse trike.
Again, I don't really know if it makes any difference at all.

Coming up... Test Drives! We'll know more soon enough. Big Grin

Afterthought... I believe that shot was from the first time the chassis was out on anything like a test track.
I've heard a few times that the suspension can be adjusted on these and the ground clearance can be raised and/or lowered.
So, again, it's likely that the more roll you take out, the stiffer the ride's going to be. But, like I said, I anticipated a 'sporty' ride to begin with.

Edit: I'm actually anticipating a 'sweet spot' somewhere between body roll and smooth ride.

I'm not expecting my Solo to be my Mustang. My '04 Mustang corners like it's on rails. I can't sense any body roll at all. Just G-force.
But the Mustang is a 4-wheeler. I'm happy that Electra Meccanica included shots like that. They certainly have the experience to know what was...
going on with the suspension and what those shots looked like. I take the fact that they published them to mean that they're not very concerned about it.

I commented about the roll in the track video myself right after it was uploaded.

Edit: Forgot to add that the Mustang's ride...
Is just a bit on the harsh side of sporty when it hits a bad road.
You feel everything, but that's the compromise I was talking about.
I also take into account that it probably weighs 3X+ what the Solo does.

Patience.
Required listening... House of Lords - Can't find my way home
This version kicks. There's just no other way to describe it. Shivers. Turn...it...up!
Disclaimer: No false statistics were supported, displayed or harmed in the making of this post.
Reply
#3
"I also have to remember that it's being pushed instead of pulled. On a 4-wheeler..."

DD, that´s exactly the problem. Naturally, any three-wheeler´s a compromise, but with two front wheels, it´d have made much more sense to power the FRONT wheels (like the Arcimoto)
[+] 1 user Likes paravil's post
Reply
#4
(09-14-2016, 06:24 AM)paravil Wrote: "I also have to remember that it's being pushed instead of pulled. On a 4-wheeler..."

DD, that´s exactly the problem. Naturally, any three-wheeler´s a compromise, but with two front wheels, it´d have made much more sense to power the FRONT wheels (like the Arcimoto)
The Mustang's rear-wheel-drive and I LOVE my 'Stang. Heart
Required listening... House of Lords - Can't find my way home
This version kicks. There's just no other way to describe it. Shivers. Turn...it...up!
Disclaimer: No false statistics were supported, displayed or harmed in the making of this post.
Reply
#5
When it ends up front to back ..... (I hate saying "I told you ...!"). But I´ve been through the German bubble car period. And so have done it many times
[+] 1 user Likes paravil's post
Reply
#6
The low center of gravity and weight distribution with that heavy centered battery pack make for much improved performance, handling, and stability over the top heavy bubble cars of yesteryear.

I appreciate the fact ElectM showed a few photos and video during the initial testing period. The Solo looked to handle well on the test track on it's first time out. The body roll in the photo is an issue that may have been handled by fine tuning the suspension.

Perhaps we are setting the bar too high for a motorcycle classified trike. I assume it's safer than the average motorcycle if we know it's limits, which is true driving any vehicle. I'm more concerned about collision performance or being t-boned in a narrow cabin light weight trike than the possibility of a roll over while driving a Solo.
White Hot Solo #166
Reply
#7
Rick, that´s because you can imagine a crash. But tipping over is a sensation that´s very hard to imagine (I´ve - as yet - always managed to catch it before it went over too far). Rear wheel drive on a tadpole will almost certainly tend to do a 360 on a slippery, wet road surface. There is a very good reason why Kroll drives a `sporty´ vehicle so carefully!
Reply
#8
Good discussion.  I'm not an engineer, don't play one on tv or on the internet, and sleep in my own bed, but... I have read and studied a number of books and lots of articles on sports and race car design and engineering.  I've been interested in cars, bikes, trikes, planes, etc for many years.  IOW, no expert, but I'd like to think that I've learned something over the years.


As I see it, we have at least two issues here: tadpoles in general and the Solo in particular.  

I have no doubt that tadpoles can be built to handle at sports car levels.  The T-Rex, Tanom Invader, and Vanderhall Laguna are all ~$50k tadpoles that appear to have excellent handling and are reputed to pull over 1g on the skidpad.  The first two are rwd, but the Laguna is fwd.  Two have motorcycle engines, one has a car engine.  All are wide-tracked and have side-by-side seating.  

Without traction control, a rwd tadpole can be a handful in the rain.  Here's a fun video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOsYo9Sv43E.  OTOH, he was pushing pretty hard.  It wasn't like he was just going out for a daily commute.

Most / all of my reading on center of gravity and roll center issues were based on 4-wheel and 2-wheel vehicles.  I'd think the principles are the same for trikes, but the details would have to make a big difference.  The high-performance, high-dollar ICE trikes seem to have been built by people who put a lot of engineering and iteration into the handling.  We have to hope that EM has done, or will do, the same.  As the track gets narrower and as speeds rise, the engineering and testing becomes much more critical.

I thought that the track video of the Solo showed more body roll than I would like, but not enough to worry me greatly.  Before purchasing, I would want to see more evidence of a thorough testing program.  Even with good engineering and testing, there will be a greater responsibility on a trike owner, especially on a narrow-track tadpole trike, to understand the handling constraints of the vehicle.  Loading heavy items in the rear trunk could cause serious instability issues.  Even something as seemingly helpful as switching to stickier front tires could make the trike much more likely to roll.  Tire selection and maintenance is important on any vehicle, but especially here.

Of course, it is reasonable to believe that Electra Meccanica is aware of all those things, and more.
[+] 1 user Likes flying_solo's post
Reply
#9
flyingSolo ... I agree ... and would like to see what a professional driver, doing an independent test, has to say. Until then, I have my reservations. There´s still plenty of time before my production number comes up, and I hope some more specific information becomes available soon
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)